I can honestly say that I used to be 100% pro dp. I have looked thru different eyes as of late and can say that I am against it. There are some crimes which may seem beyond understanding, but in the USA we can't even treat the mentally ill with compassion. I am starting to understand that most DR inmates that are actually guilty are mentally ill. they don't see right and wrong in the same state as what society has deemed normal. I also refer to Illinois where so many people on DR were not guilty. I can give 13 reasons for no DP

1 # Perry Cobb: Acquitted by a judge at his fifth trial.

Initially convicted: 1979 Freed/exonerated: 1987.
2 # Darby Tillis: Cobb's co-defendant, he also was acquitted at his fifth trial.

Initially convicted: 1979 Freed/exonerated: 1987.
3# *Joseph Burrows: Freed after two prosecution witnesses recanted their testimony.

Initially convicted: 1989 Freed/exonerated: 1994.
4# *Rolando Cruz: Acquitted by a judge at his third trial after a sheriff's lieutenant recanted his testimony.

Initially convicted: 1985 Freed/exonerated: 1995.
5 # Alejandro Hernandez: Cruz's co-defendant, he had charges dropped after Cruz's acquittal.

Initially convicted: 1985 Freed/exonerated: 1995.
6# Verneal Jimerson: A Ford Heights 4 member, he was freed after DNA evidence exonerated him.

Initially convicted: 1985 Freed/exonerated: 1996
7# *Dennis Williams: A Ford Heights 4 member, he was freed after DNA evidence exonerated him.

Initially convicted: 1978 Freed/exonerated: 1996
8# *Gary Gauger: Charges were dropped by prosecutors. Others have since been implicated.

Initially convicted: 1993 Freed/exonerated: 1996
9# Carl Lawson: Acquitted at his third trial by a jury.

Initially convicted: 1990 Freed/exonerated: 1996
10# Anthony Porter: Released after another man confessed to the murders.

Initially convicted: 1983 Freed/exonerated: 1999
11# Steven Smith: Illinois Supreme Court vacated his conviction for insufficient evidence.

Initially convicted: 1986 Freed/exonerated: 1999
12# Ronald Jones: Charges dropped after he was exonerated by DNA evidence.

Initially convicted: 1989 Freed/exonerated: 1999
13# *Steve Manning: Charges dropped after Illinois Supreme Court ruled that improper evidence was used to convict him.

Initially convicted: 1993 Freed/exonerated: 2000

chicago tribune.

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In the end....it does just that

A> If your Pro DP, do you feel some anti's go over the edge to scary or criminal minded or other themselves etc


B. If your Anti DP do you feel some Pro's take it over the edge to scary or criminal minded themselves etc.

Both groups have extreme cases, just like any other group of people who become passionate about a cause. The same can be said for animal rights, abortions, and was the same for the Suffragette movement. Sometimes you feel that the cause is worth any action you can take, and I have to say, had I been alive when the right to vote was restricted or when slavery or segregation was still practiced legally, I would have been chaining myself to railings etc as well. What I can't take is when the truth is twisted by individuals to fit their cause. If you dont have enough facts to stand upon then the cause is not a worthy one in the first place, imo.


C. If you sit on the fence so to speak, meaning believe the DP is fair in extreme cases only, does that to you mean you are actually Pro?

Yes, though I dont see it as sitting on the fence, I see it as taking a considered approach and treating the crimes and the criminals as individuals.


D. If you are totally anti DP, how long "should an inmate stay incarcerated" being of worse of the worse, & crimes commited, how many years is too long to you?

E. If your Pro death penalty how many years is too long to be on death row before executed to you?

I would not put a single time limit on it. I would have to be certain that the judicidal system had not been compromised and that all avenues had been investigated if there had been claims that evidence had been suppressed etc. In cases where a criminal was caught in the act, then as long as all the facts had been presented in court, there is no reason to delay execution if the crime was severe enough to warrent it.

I see no point in keeping someone on DR for 30 years+ as has happened in TX. I also see no point in keeping someone alive just so they can be executed a few days later.


F. If you sit on the fence, where is the line?, Type crimes, or how many victims, or to who victims were the heinousness of the crime. would it take to qualify for DP to you? .

In my world, each case would be individually assessed by a panel of independent judges to determine whether the crime(s) were so severe that they warrented the DP. The starting point would not necessarily be a single murder: there are many many people who commit one murder who are no danger to anyone else. Those who kill multiple times before they are caught would be candidates, as would those who kill children. There are alternatives for those who harm children in other ways that do not need to include the DP.

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Im Pro. And like Elric said, a year for appeals then swift execution.

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By Strength and Guile

A year for appeals? That is too harsh. I say that because it took Texas 10 years to rule on my husbands habeas corpus which literally sat there, delayed by each and every case before the USSC that could potentially overturn his sentence. The judge didn't want to be wrong or over ruled by the high court.

So, what do you propose be done in those situations?

In addition, what about those who are innocent? My uncle spent over a decade in prison on death row for a crime he did not commit. Had we gone by that logic, the state would have executed an innocent man.

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William Jennings Bryan

A& B ) Both pro and anti sides have their extremes . They do and say things that are bizarre ,offensive and or disturbing .Some on both sides do commit crimes . IE Introducing cell phones to a Prison housing a DR . On the other extreme providing false evidence and or statements to help secure a conviction and hurt appeals They also make false statements protests to prevent parole or clemency for those not on DR and eligible or in the case of DR are eligible for clemency or commutation .

Both of these wackos feed off each others bizarre and inflammatory behavior and comments and occasionally criminal actions . Comments such as “One year and a day of appeals and execute them” is simply inflammatory nothing more .

Marrying the most heinous and flaunting it in a very public manner is also “in your face” behavior Of course you are going to get attention when you act in a very disturbing manner . This just escalates to the point of no return for them . And is intend to do just that cause a uproar and get attention .

Inciting each other and getting attention does seem to be part of all this . These wackos are probably very psychologically troubled maladjusted people to begin with that is why they act as they do .

There are extremest in every cause or movement.


C ) Yes they are “pro” n in the sense that the believe some who are the very worse should be executed . Then there are those like who can honestly say what the hell do you do with the very worst . Put them on DR they become glorified demi gods Give them LWOP and the other side goes nuts but a t least the don't have groupies because with put the DP limited groupies it is the DP that attracts groupies in all but a few case such as Charles Manson . He did not get the DP because at the time it was unconstitutional .

I can also say that LWOP for the likes of Dahmer is far worse than death . Those types cannot stand prison . Kenneth Mc Duff hated it more than anything . Then LWOP is not living it is existing to die in prison .

E) Because of human error and the very real possibility of executing innocent people there should not be specific limit . With out the DP this is less of a problem we can release and compensate the wrongly convicted though there is never true compensation for lost years in prison for something you did not do . Yes it happens .

To say there are not innocent people convicted not is not even in the realm of being realistic and rational It is either a inability to admit being wrong , ignorant or just being inflammatory .

This is the a moral problem with the DP .How long they wait on DR. Worse if they are innocent most are not but some are .


D, & F) Instead of the DP LWOP in a a seg environment for the very worse or most dangerous psychopaths such as Bart Whitaker . That would be far worse than death he hates every second he is alone in his cell . Death will be release for him . The added bonus of less groupies is a plus too .

The reason most serial killers are not executed is they use the DP as a bargaining chip . The will say take the DP off the table and they will start talking about where their victim's remains are Sorry no nice way to put it . Instead say LWOP in seg no human contact until you talk serial killers crave attention that can only be achieved with human contact .


On a different note m those convicted of homicide have the lowest recidivism rate ( yes they do get released .) Women convicted of a violent crime homicide in particular overall have the very lowest recidivism rate . That does not mean all of them just most of them .

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The Constitution is not a Technicality!

Me

If you never have dreams they will never come true.

Somethings are worth fighting for !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Ngn...eature=related


Money Talks !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL8qqjOnlg

A&B. Yes, I see pro and anti both have some who go to the extreme. One that bothers me highly is the groupie mentality of truely worse of the worse on DR. It appears they want them totally free to go home to them, not just brought to LWOP sentence.

This world is changing and despite some efforts to make it appear more civil it is not what I see going on. Having been anti which I think I still am, but now I believe of all times the DP should remain in tact.
Certain crimes. Serial killers, our children are being brutally raped killled torchered, even by their own parents.

Terroist attacks. Terrorist for example find it great to die for their cause and do not care if innocents are killed,or how manythey take out in their privte war. Bin Laden said, Americans love life we love death..


Due to the times we are in, the DP should be available for the rare few who do such heinous acts.

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Thats a point. Has anyone heard of these groupies writing to terrorists? Enemies of the country?

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By Strength and Guile

Interesting point but i think a terrorist groupie would endanger himself or am i wrong ?

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Guess who i will see soon live in action.

you are correct! first of all , look at the mentality of the "groupie" Whether it be rock stars or dr inmates. It is a "look at me" move. their will be groupies for terrorists too, time will show that. they will associate themselves with the group, just for attention. personally, if you are on DR or LWOP you should not beallowed marrige, you gave that up the second you were convicted. I am anti DP, but even if all were converted to DWOP they should be limited to what they are allowed to do. Mail, yes, visits and marrige, never.

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In the end....it does just that

Aren't all terrorists just another form of groupie?

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