I had the chance to talk with some of my friends recently and the DP along with DR groupies came up All of my friends are women and none are on DR one is actively appealing her conviction and has a rock solid case .

They in different words they asked or pondered what if there was not a DP and the men who have fan clubs and groupies got LWOP and faced the obscurity of being just another convict who will not leave prison alive .

I am paraphrasing all of them and their questions .

Would their groupies and fans pay attention to those men ?

Would they turn to more worth while causes than a man who committed horrible crimes ?

Would these wackos and groupies assist those women fighting their cases ? Would they send them lots of money and pay for high powered lawyers and other experts ?

No that they want it and none want websites interesting isn't it ?

One sure (all in my opinion) could have benefited from these experts and high priced attorneys a few years ago when her life was forever changed .


Would more resources be available to them (and men too ) and to help all convicts on release ?

We spend millions in DP cases as One friend asked are they the homicidal, child raping, woman killing lunatics really worth millions ?

Why do they get more sympathy and attention than those they brutalized to death . With out the DP the would simply be convicts doing LWOP .

Why is it a woman on DR rarely gets this attention ? In fact why is is women who are incarcerated do not get the attention and sympathy that our most brutal killers get ?


Maybe some , of those millions could go towards helping those who need help before ever ending up in the criminal justice system ?

Some back to the taxpayer .

Where could the resources be better used millions in one case or could it be used to really have justice and prevent some from ever entering prison or the criminal justice system .

One other questions was had those men not done the things they did to land on DR would any of their groupies or fans even care .

From the underwhelming responses and lack there of elsewhere to the Iraqi woman sentenced to death for something in all likelihood he did not do considering how they mete out justice . I doubt it


Why are people like myself who do not accept and find this sickening repulsive behavior called “haters” , “ ignorant" and of all things “Pros” even if we are anti DP ? All because we cannot begin to comprehend what they do

We will never understand deliberately seeking out a man who committed horrific things especially agianst women and children for marriage ?

Yes women doing time are well aware of DR groupies and find them as sickening as most of us . They ask what if all the resources wasted on them was put to better uses . Just give them LWOP and pop them in seg until the can be with others if at all them They should be forgotten not flaunted and glorified !

.Sadly . most women incarcerated are forgotten even if they desperately need help and are innocent . Some just want to get on with their lives after their time ?

Somethings is very wrong with those groupies and wackos moral compass if they even have one .Then are they really anti DP?

It is all wishful thinking the groupies and wackos will go away Though with out a DP they might . I know they would not become involved in any real reforms . Imagine what we could do with out The DP and all it's repulsive sideshows and the wackos on both extremes it attracts .

The story and lack of attention about the condemned Iraqi woman says all we need to know .


On a different note

Does any one know if women in Iraqi Prisons can receive mail ?

__________________
The Constitution is not a Technicality!

Me

If you never have dreams they will never come true.

Somethings are worth fighting for !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Ngn...eature=related


Money Talks !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL8qqjOnlg

My thoughts always go more toward "some" females thinking in general first, Not that I am or was a womens activist for womens rights.

The sad tragic news of the Iraqi women, Saed Abdullah, and her being put to death by hanging in Iraq brings to mind the men and their lies, and injustice toward women. Her's has been extreme just being born a female.

There was another thread of a young girl who's parent married her off at the age of 10yrs old, then when she wanted to be a child as she is really, and got a divorce her family shunned her as if she were some evil child.

Then we jump to other countries, where majority of crimes by criminals are against women, or their child. "Mostly" not always again to a female child.

Now we go to the prisons, and DR many who commited heinous crimes were crimes against women or a female child, even if still pregnant and carrying the child.
Prison population is mostly male. Women on DR or even generla have less support and no groupies for sure.

That is why and where I find it when a DR inmate is by no doubt guilty and say someone like Peterson who killed his wife pregnant with their baby, any women could write him for marriage or other. Even if the women felt justice was wrong, still that thought justice was correct maybe would be a turn off.

I know a womens natural instinct is nurture but, come on guys that is for kids, not men or women who have commited a crime even in general population. Support and aiding in their rehabilitation is straight shooting done politley and in some cases severe talk. I do not get it personally women need to stop moddle coddling adults who dids adult crimes.

As far as groupies and DR would be interesting to see what their mentality would do , if given real LWOP, never see the light of say for the truely heinous ones, seems it would loose its glory with no DP to mourn. Those who mourn the definitely guilty on being executed never do say how violently the victim or victims were killed savagely brutally. While the real Monster yes monster, as media and vistims family see's them justly so, never comes up.

No I not against at all supporting inmates and rights as the law itself should and does is most case's, but groupie mentality and women defending men Who commited heinous crimes to women and our kids. Makes me completely angry and upset for the victims instead.

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Too add I noticed a high profile TX DR offender has posted photos of Polunsky on his "insightful " blog . Yes the Photos are of Polunsky 12 building for the most part . I'd love to give a better and more accurate version .

Though he exaggerates a lot . There is reason he is restrained and confined so he does not hurt any one .

The images really are not much different any SEG on Polunslky or buildings Prisons similar to it .

No the line break he calls a EKG line , is not some sick thing on TDCJ s part it has to do with security .

The images could be easily be of seg on Murray or Hobby and Mt View . The other female units are older and very differently built Oh wait why would any one care and whine about that .After all they are not on DR and not men who did horrific things .

This loser earned his place in a seg environment and I have no sympathy for him seg is a good place for him and those just like him who cannot or will not control their violent homicidal tendencies. To bad no LWOP in a place like that for him much more fitting

Why No complaints and whining about seg on Murray or Hobby they are just as bad . Most women in seg are no where near as dangerous as most of those on TX DR who can and will kill if ever given the chance . Why no "crying" about the Women in seg ? Or On DR on MT View?

Water is from condensation . If you know how thick those walls are and built with steel reinforced concrete .

The dirty cells are due to the offender not cleaning their cell . They can if they choose to well I l guess eating lots of junk food is much more important than cleaning your cell .

My friends laugh at him and his whining. He only had his family killed for$ 1,000 no big one .

Why does not any one care about the conditions they live with and they did not do anything like most of those on DR ?

I often think this whole debate is not about the DP but about the attention men who committed atrocities get .

That little is said about women and how they are abused and the Iraqi woman says it all .

My friend unquestionably think that there is far too much attention paid to those losers many of whom have beaten raped and killed women and children to land on DR .

Then many women in prison far too often identify with these monsters victims .


"Poor guy" he just paid a mer$1000 to have his mother and brother gunned down Boo Hoo ( his father by some chance lived) . "Poor guys" one just went on multi day killing rampage because he was mad at "Arabs" .Another Killed his girlfriend and sons in a codeine and alcohol fueled jealous rage . Another went on a multi day auto theft spree and killed a few guys not a big deal ? I can go on and on . I saw them (only one mentioned ) .Some since executed of them in person ! Few I would call nice guys or want friendship with them . That does not mean I want them executed just given LWOP and forgotten .

Something sure is wrong with those who support such monsters Yet not a peep about what women thought the world enduer often in prison .Usually for far lesscri es than a those above did

These homicidal monsters get sympathy money lots of high powered legal help paid of by gruopies and fans and even praise yet woman can do years for far less and lose everything and every one Where the hell is your morality ?

__________________
The Constitution is not a Technicality!

Me

If you never have dreams they will never come true.

Somethings are worth fighting for !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Ngn...eature=related


Money Talks !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL8qqjOnlg

I´m not an anti DP activist or something like this but i strongly condemn the DP. One could say the DP is only given for crimes, the question stays what a crime is. In one country is it a heinous murder, in another country is it being gay, in another country is it drug possession and other lawmakers use DP as a political instrument (for instance in former East-Germany).
I´m not sure whether i could have contact to a DR inmate, for instance in the states. I can´t imagine that in the U.S. all convicts who got DP could be innocent. Am i able to distinguish who the truth tells (verdict or inmate) ? Surely not, i guess. On the other hand do i know the case of Ray Krone, the only crime this "scumbag" has done was delivering letters. When i would follow some users of an another Pro DP forum, then would Rays life have no worth because he was a convicted murderer. This attitude is shortsighted and retrograde, that´s why i can´t comprehend this. How you wanna excuse such attitude when such a conviction comes to light as definitely wrong ?
In general do i think to be in prison (no matter whether DR or not) is no reason to be proud. It tells that something in life went wrong. The question stays whether it´s justified to give such harsh sentences as it is usual in the U.S. I have some serious doubts and it´s one of the reasons i feel a kind of pity for inmates (from time to time). On the other hand i experienced only one time when a pp admitted that she has done something wrong. She got an extraordinary harsh sentence, unimaginable here for the same offense. The lawmakers should learn that they establish new and preventable problems when the sentence lengths are in no comprehensible relation and balance to the offenses. Keyword is overcrowding and its consequences.
Surely are also really dangerous people in DRs. The societies safety is the most important thing in such cases, no doubt. The question is whether it´s justified to simply kill them or whether the endangered society should be humanely enough to treat them when it is apparently that they are mentally disturbed. I think a modern society should do this. It has reasons when someones behaviour is abnormal. Humans in general follow psychological behaviour patterns (without any exception) and they stay capable of learning the whole life. No matter how long it would take, but it´s in general possible to learn such inmates that also they can have a meaningful and humane future despite her past. Behind bars but meaningful. I believe NGCs Lockdown has shown such lifers.

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Do you like that kind of german folk music ?.

If we take DP away to LWOP, I believe the next step for these groupies/extremist will be next to fight to release them no matter how heinous a crime or how many victims, will come next from them.


The type mentality ASE is talking about, who glorify these guys, maybe we should allow them family visits alone in the DR cell with them for a couple weeks???

Or if the person is from another country, or right here in the states, send them the DR inmate?

__________________

Agreed 100%

__________________
By Strength and Guile

Peanut, I hope you don´t think i would be an extremist. In my eyes is there no reason to glorify any offense or crime, both are wrong doings. And a murder stays a murder. It plays no role where he is committed.
When i reflect about DR inmates then i ask myself, whether the majority of those have connections to their real life families or friends, or if they are thrown away by the family. By the way, in relation to your last phrase: i can see how other penal systems work, for instance our own. Believe me, those felons wouldn´t get any chance to become glorified. Those contacts would become stopped. Maybe is it a simple solution the COs could do.

__________________
Do you like that kind of german folk music ?.

Andreas no I do not in any way think you are an extremist or a DR groupie.

But I do believe if one is anti DP, not all see the Anti DP side the same.
A further agenda for some is showing its ugly head by some anti's.
Not such thing as LWOP, serve so many years, they change so should be free next goal..

Could you just imagine if Jeffery Dahmer had lived, he would be out in 30 yrs due to not humanly right to contain a man longer then that.
Or a man like Manson a parole board by law, having to release him poor guy has spent an inhuman amt of time inside? That is where some groupies of DR and anti would take it.
Not all anti would agree with that, I would hope?


I do feel when it comes to this category of DR followers"groupies", prisons know who they are. They should not have a chance to glorify them.

Also, I wonder do these DR groupies"pay to bury their loved one, a funeral with theiri remains somewhere or pay to have the cremation remains sent to them??????
Never hear anything in regards of a respectful funeral after the execution, for the remains from gruopies?????

__________________

I know something about Jeffrey Dahmer and the things he has done and how he has died. I favor to think rationally about him to prevent to become overheated.
His crimes were abnormal. His mind also. Robert Ressler has sat such a long time with him to understand what was going on inside him. I revere Robert Ressler because he´s a very wise scientist.
In my eyes stays the safety of the society the most important thing. To be against means in cases of Manson or Dahmer prefering a life sentence. Our own system is in relation to life sentences a bit flexible. It can mean LWOP but it´s not a must be. The aim is to give and maintain each lifers hope for a return into the free world. Depending on the specific case will after 15 years a process be started to check whether the inmate is furthermore a menace to society or not. This process can take some years. When the court has defined the "aggravated guilt" in his verdict, then starts that process not automatically, the court could start it manually. When there would be doubts about the inmate could furthermore be no menace, then the inmate stays where he is. I´m sure it would been very difficult for Jeffrey Dahmer to come free here, i don´t believe in this. For Charles Manson i wouldn´t be sure because he didn´t kill anyone, he is a psychopath and demagogue. I guess he would been here in a psychiatric facility.
To explain why i can´t imagine such groupie thing here: the prison warden is responsible for all things related to the prisons security. Responsible for the inmate while his detention is the court which has spoken out the verdict. Having contact to the free world is a constitutional right, it only can become limited by an authority of the state like the court. When the prison warden would observe such groupie development for an inmate then he could inform the court and the court could decide to set new limitations of the inmates constitutional rights. That mechanism is to prevent and fight such developments and simply said, it works.

__________________
Do you like that kind of german folk music ?.

First Andreas I do not think you are a wacko . You have beliefs and ideas that are well thought out and worth talking about .


If we ended the DP and had LWOP where their is discretion for release under some conditions as a safety valve of last resort because of a imperfect system . Those wackos and groupies would want their” heroes” released ASAP .

In the US at any rate I don't think that will happen in any of our lifetimes . Those wackos groupies are very small in number . Due to the internet they have become more visible . A particular site has be taken over by wackos and groupies . It happens to be the first site that comes up in any search for help when the you have a loved one incarcerated . There seems to be very little and then their is the long list of threads from that site before any other site is listed .

So there is the false impression their view is the view of every one who opposes the DP and wants to reform our very troubled justice system and prison reform . Most cringe at the site and wish that it would go away . That site does not speak for any one or any organization but is self .

Before the rapid rise of the internet there were very few DR groupies .They have been around in some for for a very long time . So have their wacko counter parts . The internet artificially inflates their voices and apparent numbers . Doing and saying bizarre things gets attention with the internet any board journalist on a slow day can easily find them .

As a example
They are announcing new “ DR Tour to visit and cheer up the guys ” in a few Gulf Coast states of course TX being the “main attraction” . They say it is going to be get this “Fun” !

I never thought of visiting DR as ”Fun” . Then I never thought of Polunsky as fun .

Fifteen to 20 years ago would their be news pieces about European women marrying death row prisoners? Note there are very few weddings in female prisons a US DOJ statistical fact .

Their now a actual organization that has a website and My Space page seeking out those who have sought out and married a US Death Row Prisoner . Texas being ground zero once again due to the high number of TX executions.

What I am trying to say is the DP diverts attention and resources away from other areas that badly need reform and changes . The DP also gives most DR prisoners a lot more attention than they deserve .

That is correct few female prisoners have a cult like following. Darlie Routier does have a following of sorts .From those who think she got a bad deal or might be innocent to real nut cases . Her case was messed up from the second the cops got to the scene . Her case is going to attract nut jobs . It is just part of life . Then all DP cases seem to attract wackos and wingnuts from both sides .

There is one man named Dave who claims to be in love or a relationship with Darlie . It is well known on the Female Units . His behavior for a man is highly unusual . Interestingly he can come across as very intelligent at times and times very psychologically messed up . Apparently he does not flaunt it and does not glorify her .It is very strange . His behavior is not the same as groupies similar in some ways, very different in others .

Peanut in fact yes groupies have paid for funeral and cremations some have even fought over remains !

At least 3 that have been taken new heights in sickening and repulsive on line spectacles on another site .

While it is a interesting thought No I would not let them go into visit the nice misunderstood homicidal psychopaths on DR . Imagine one getting pregnant!! They have tired to smuggle UMMM “stuff” out . On Polunsky I know for a fact it was attempted . That is part of why that person never leaves F Pod and why his European wife is banned from both TDCJ in any form and entering the US . F Pod is the “hole” on Polunsky DR where the most troublesome prisoners are kept . For the most part they really are that bad and that physically dangerous .

No DP and the vast majority of this stops . Sometimes I think neither extreme pro or anti want it it stop . That would take attention off them

What my friends are trying to express is why waste so much time money and effort on a few losers who should never get out and be ignored rather than have all kinds of attention both positive and negative . Not to mention that every time they cause trouble it affects every one of them .

Prison systems can temporarily restrict mail. Long term measures require a costly legal battle and the groupies quickly via the internet combine resources fight it . Another waste of limited funds and resources and court time .

These are the unseen costs of the DP .

__________________
The Constitution is not a Technicality!

Me

If you never have dreams they will never come true.

Somethings are worth fighting for !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2Ngn...eature=related


Money Talks !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgL8qqjOnlg