Im at lost for words...All I asked this jerk was his views on the death penalty and this is what he says. My brain is numb. This is the problem with half of society and their views of the death penalty, and prisoners in general. I now have a full blown bloody headache.

Well, Dani, let me have a try at this, since I have a view and various of the replies here are, in my opinion, somewhat emotional and vituperative. You will all, I hope, excuse me if I seem either boring or lost for words, but I've never tried to express this before.

At heart, the question revolves around society and the individual.

No individual has an obligatory contract with society unless both he and society have agreed one. The default state of affairs is that if an individual refuses to either acknowledge or fulfill his obligations toward society, he is an outlaw and society owes no duty toward him in terms of, for example, protection, education, social or health care. Effectively, if the individual declares himself at war with society, he is exercising his right to do so. Society in turn has no power over him save tyrannical power, no duty toward him, and might reasonably wish to expel him from its borders.

If an individual accepts the social contract, even by implication in making use of that protection, education, social or health care, then society has those obligations toward him in exchange for his support and his compliance with society's rules.

In neither case, though, is society allowed (because it is a civil society, and not tyrannical) to abuse or damage the individual, if that is a part of the civil contract. The simple reason for this is the disparity in size and power between them. Society is powerful, and it is therefore incumbent on it to exercise all possible restraint. All doubt has to be resolved in favor of the individual.

Now, if the civil contract is that society may kill the individual who has broken the contract in specified ways, then the death penalty is a consequence agreed to beforehand by the individual and is a known consequence of his actions.

Anyone who lives voluntarily under a regime that can declare his life forfeit in agreed circumstances, and who has a choice in living there and not elsewhere under different rules, and who has invoked the benefits of that society prior to so breaking that society's rules, is subject to the specified penalty. If that is death, then it is death.

Assuming all the foregoing to be reasonable, I conclude:

First, society has an absolute duty to impartially apply its penalties and benefits.

Second, society has an absolute duty to be accurate in its assessment of guilt before it can apply sanctions.

Third, society has to declare the contract in a comprehensible manner before a sanction can be invoked.

On the basis that the United States of America has failed in all three of these categories, I believe it cannot impose sanctions on its citizens which are irreversible or incapable of restitution. I am against the death penalty until those three conditions are met.

That is pretty brain numbing all-right, but you did say that you asked his opinion, and so . . he gave it to you. But, the bottom line is that he is against the death penalty. Although, I don't feel that his preamble supports his conclusion, I don't think he's a jerk.

__________________
Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly.

Cowards are cruel, but the brave love mercy.

Interesting to say at the least!

__________________
The last of all freedoms is the ability to choose one's attitude in a given set of circumstances.
G. W. Allport.

I dont think he is a jerk either. Funny how we are all conditioned, and when it is black and white and or the truth, it is difficult for the brain to comprehend. That is how i was left.....just going hmmmmmmm.....Non the less, your jerk is not a dumb person. However can definately see your frustration!!

Did I call him a jerk?? yes i did. O'Well to tell you the truth his rambling had me confused and I didnt read it very well. (Obviously) and I was yakking away to Vanessa, and its all her fault she confused me
So now that i woke up, and i read it with a clear mind...I can see his point.Now I have to go apologise for calling him a jerk

But anyway I do not want to start a new post, it seems like I am doing that every day and I got complaints so, Im going to do this here.
I have a death row pal in florida and he really said something that made me think, he was adopted as a child, he had a crappy childhood till he was taken from the home at the age of 5. He told me he is strongly against adoption. He says he is looking for his real mother, and he cannot get any information. I am going to try to help him. In his homepage for pen pals,, instead of anything to do with helping out his case, he has this petition to stop adoptions.
he thinks that maybe if he wasn't adopted, he woudnt of been on the path he was, and be the person he was.
Well I dontaggree with him 100%. I have seen adoption do good. Maybe my life would of turned out different had I known my father, It really is not something I think he should be dwelling on, because we cant change any of the facts now, just deal with today.
What if I find her for him, and she dont want to be found? Can anyone give me some advice? i dont want to stick my nose where it dont belong, on her part.

Sounds like your pal is looking for someone or something to blame for him being in the situation he's ended up in. BUT he needs to take responsibility for his actions and then look at the whole adoption issue in a different light.
We choose our own paths in life and if we are influenced by bad people and slip onto the wrong paths then we have no one to blame but ourselves. Should you get involved - personally I would stand back and let things lie. Think about it - he's already toying with the idea that its because of adoption that he's in this present mess so whats gonna happen if you helped to find his blood parents - is he gonna turn around and openly blame them for all thats happened to him just to make himself feel better???? Too many looses ends that can trip you up if you get involved in this one babe - just my two cents worth (smile)

__________________
They say NOBODY is perfect so just call me NOBODY

Dani..I think you may have answered your own question. Maybe "poking your nose in" isn't the best idea.

Adoption is a hell of a lot more complex than many people realize...and the real hell of it is that no one has been able to determine any pattern of growth or behaviour resulting from adoptions. Some work out just fine...child is adopted...child grows...child is successful adult. Then of course there is the other side of the coin.

It strikes me that in this case neither side can be very happy with the outcome if your search is successful. Mother managed to turn her life around and make something good out of what was obviously bad, only to find out years later the son she had is on death row...or Mother didn't turn her life around and is living in misery...with a son on death row.

It seems to be that nothing much good can come of this.

Just my thoughts.

Tom

__________________
An eye for an eye and soon the whole world is blind!

If you ask this man...what time is it? He will tell you how to build a clock.

Daniella,
I think that we can forgive you for misunderstanding his response. It was mind boggling, to say the least. :-)
What really startles me is that you may have received complaints about your posts. I, for one, think that is horrendous. I don't think that we get enough topics and posts, and things get to be a little dull, after a while. Even if we don't agree on things, it is stimulating to hear other opinions and to be able to speak our minds, to ask questions, and to debate a point.
So, I hope that you are not discouraged in any way.
I hope that you keep on with any ideas that cross your mind. And, if I disagree with you, I will still love you for bringing it up.
So, keep on keeping on, little WAP sister. :-)

__________________
Live simply, love generously, care deeply, speak kindly.

Cowards are cruel, but the brave love mercy.

Hi Daniella...
Well, I'm adopted myself and in my case my mother didn't want to contact me just because she felt like it would be better if I myself would contact her when and if I wanted to. I really don't think you can blame his current situation on him being adopted, as someone here said, we all have to take responsibility for our own actions.
Anyway, I do have contact with mo mother now, not my father, and if you want to ask anything about it or I can help in some way, just send an e-mail to tessan_lil(at)hotmail dot com