Smiley:

I am not offended by your comments, and will TRY to explain where I am coming from. You may still disagree with me, and that is alright. First off, I do not think that ALL correction's officers are "bad" however I DO think that abuse of power goes on more often than most people would like to acknowledge.

As for the C.O. that shot that lady, while I DO understand that he may have had no choice in that situation, I didn't like his attitude AT ALL. He seemed to ME to be VERY cold and indifferent. If I were a police officer or a correctional officer, and I was put in a situation where I absolutely HAD to use lethal force, I would STILL feel some sadness and remorse over having taken another life. This woman wasn't a bad person. She was very troubled, and had a history of mental health problems. Her "husband" took advantage of her, and exploited her need to feel loved.

As for the Warden at the prison where my boyfriend is. Let's put it this way. I have NEVER heard ANYONE say a nice word about him. From what I understand, he even has a hard time holding onto staff! He is a very cruel and sadistic man, who ENJOYS having power over people. He has NO compassion whatsoever. Even my boyfriends adoptive dad(who is an older, devout Christian man, and NEVER has a negative word to say about ANYONE) despises him!

I SAW him on an episode of the show "Lockup" and to the man's credit he didn't misrepresent himself AT ALL! You could tell that he looked down on the inmates, and didn't seem to realize OR care that they are human beings with feelings too.

For example, he said that my boyfriend was stupid! On national television! First of all, he is NOT stupid! Given the fact that he didn't even complete high school, he is VERY well-written and VERY well-spoken.. We have had many intelligent conversations on a wide range of subjects. And I think that it is VERY unprofessional to be making those comments about inmates under his care. He is supossed to be building up their self-esteem, not tearing it down. People have to respect themselves FIRST, before they can respect another. That is NOT constructive critism, and was only meant to be hurtful. Even though he ACTED as though it didn't bother him, I know that deep down inside it did.

And also. HE(the Warden) did NOT come across as an intelligent man! He used improper english, vulgar language etc. What a shining example!

The prison that he is in is one of the strictest in the entire state! Inmates in segregation are not even allowed access to books, a policy that promotes ignorance, and is counterproductive! His approach is ENTIRELY punitive, with no emphasis WHATSOEVER on rehabilitation. He is an arrogant, self-absorbed JERK and I am sticken to it!

The Deputy Warden on the other hand, made a very positive impression on me! He seemed like a reasonable, fair AND compassionate man, even though he wasn't a total pushover! There HAVE been warden's and prison staff on other episodes, that have REALLY impressed me! So, no I don't have anything against people who staff prisons. Only those who are completely heartless, and thirsty for power! Oh, and did I mention that this man performs all of the executions carried out in the state, and takes great pride in it? Even brags about it? Sound like a "nice guy" to you? I don't think so!

And you may say that I am biased, and that I should be skeptical about my boyfriend's claims, but he has NEVER lied to me. He is the kind of person who takes responsibility for his actions, and doesn't pretend to be a saint! When he is punished, and he is deserving of it, he admits it! However, no one deserves some of the things that the staff have done to him. For example, vicious beatings that continue even AFTER he has been subdued.

Are there good correction's officers? Absolutely. But there are bad ones too, and I don't mean ANY disrespect when I say this(so please don't take it the wrong way) but it seems that you tend to be biased IN FAVOR of them! I notice that a lot of people make excuses for them. For example, arguing that there MUST be some justification for rules that are just ridiculous, and have NO purpose whatsoever!

For example, he instituted a new rule that doesn't allow hand holding during visits. I am a reasonable woman Smiley. Really, I am! I totally understand(and agree in fact!) that the visiting room is a family environment, and that certain behavior is inappropriate. We can not for example, have couples making out, fondling one another etc. But please explain to me what is so "inappropriate" or "obscene" about a mother who hasn't seen her son in weeks, months or even years, wanting to hold his hand? What is wrong with me wanting to hold the hand of the man I love? NOTHING.

He treats them like animals, and keeps taking more and more away from them, and THEN expects to get positive results. He closes off ANY and ALL avenues for them to learn and grow. There needs to be a balance between punishment and rehabilitation. That is why they are called "correctional facilities"! My sweetie has told me that the staff members who ARE good and decent, tend to leave after awhile because they can't handle working in such an environment.

Alright, I'll leave it at that! I was speaking about specific instances in this particular post, NOT in general terms. While the correction's officer's actions may have been justified in order to protect himself, fellow staff, other inmates, and the public, one should NEVER view the taking of a life as "no big deal". THAT is abnormal!

Lisa

Lisa, thankyou for your reply. I just want to make something really clear to you. I don't believe your boyfriend is lying to you, what i was only trying to point out is people can see the same thing and process it differently. If you understand what i am trying to say.

You maybe right when you say i have a biased opinion towards those that up hold the law, like CO's. Maybe it is because i have been exposed to many good people that work within the industry. That is not to say i don't know about many horror stories that make your blood boil. That i haven't walked in on a cop in his own home doing drugs, yet he then goes and arrests someone else for the same "crime."

I understand there is good and bad in ALL THINGS. I just think many of the time the bad ones, meaning those who up hold the law and abuse their power, leave a foul taste and odour behind for the ones that do really care about there job and do it well.

Even when i went to visit my friend in America i was a little apprehensive because of what i had read, and the stories my other friends shared as to what i could expect based on how they have been treated in the past. Honestly i have nothing but positive things to share about my trip. It wasn't just a day visit. It was EVERY day for 10 days, all day you may as well say. The Co's and visiting Sgt were great, extremely helpful and what i saw was really nice people. One CO even gave me money out of his own wallet so i could purchase a locker as i didn't have change. This was in front of everyone in the waiting room.
I also saw the visiting Sgt do her job and turn a young lady away for inappropiate clothing, i heard a CO yell at a prisoner for not following the rules, i can only go by my experiences.

My BIL is a CO....he has a pretty big heart....but recently he has substained some injuries....a broken hand...and a broken ankle....all inflicted by inmates who seemed to be trustworthy.

If you have never had urine or feces thrown at you, try it sometime and then think about what you would do to prevent it from happening again.

A few months back, one of his friends was almost strangled to death by an inmate. All because he went into the holding cell to see if the guy was ok. The guy was playing possum.

There are lots of rules, because various inmates find ways to use anything as a weapon (ie toothbrush sharpened into a knife)....scotch tape to hide a weapon in a heating duct....people kissing and passing drugs back and forth while they are swapping spit....so, it is because of these people that the rules must apply to EVERYONE.

So, try not to blame the prison system, but rather, those creative individuals who choose to break the rules or learn to recylce things for mischievous deeds that you and I would never think of.

I have never been to a prison, but I believe how COs or prison staff treat a non-inmate (or even act toward inmates when visitors are present) during a visit is immensely different from the treatment inmates receive daily. Prison isn't fun and it isn't supposed to be, but I feel there's a reason that each of my penpals (all 8 of them) have told me about negative treatment from COs and prison staff. I imagine a CO would see a visitor as someone like themselves, one who hasn't committed a crime and is a good person - and I doubt the majority of them view inmates as good people not defined by an action. Of course there are great COs who really care about inmates and try to do everything they can to make prison not be so unbearable, but sadly I don't think this is the majority.

ambrose, i will honestly agree with you. One particular friend i have who has been in a while, 17 years nearly. Has shared many a story about his treatment in prison, and especially when he first went in with a really bad attitude and chip on his shoulder. He would swing at anyone, guard or inmate, just trying to "fit in" and hold his own, as he puts it.
Today his story is a little different.

Well, part of the "lockdown" program I mentioned before was showing the daily routine of the prison. You have to understand I'm talking about a supermax prison (I think it was Stillwater) and they send inmates there who have showed violent behaviour in previous prisons.

The inmate I was talking about (who had a CO as a girlfriend) was saying how prison was "his ground". CO's only come there for a couple of hours-shift and then go home. He has to stay there for the rest of his life and wants to make it as comfortable as possible. If they have to fight to win some respect, even kill someone, that's what they'll do. Usually they have nothing to lose anyway - especially when they have to spend life in prison.

Some CO's were telling about how the inmates collect information and will use it against you. They take off wedding rings, don't talk about family, don't talk about what car they like, because everything a CO said could be used against them. I do think there's some truth in that, once you get too friendly with the wrong person, knowing certain details will reveal your weak spot. And I understand that not everybody has bad intentions, but I can imagine that (as a CO) you don't want to run the risk of divulging too much informtation to a bad apple.

They also showed how they would pick up a "spitter" from a prison cell. Showed camera footage of people who threw feces/food/became violent when they took him out of a cell. I can understand how a CO just wants to do his/her job and that - once you're labelled as a spitter - CO's will take certain precautions when they get you out of your cell. It seemed very barbaric to put a mask over someone's head, but it does serve a purpose...

So - like Smiley - I do see the other side - not all CO's are bad and not all inmates are little saints

Smiley:

I too am VERY apprehensive about my upcoming visit. I have NEVER visited anyone in prison before, and I have heard countless horror stories! So, needless to say I am nervous. Believe it or not, I WANT to believe that most correctional officer's are good, decent people. But the bad stories that I have heard, outnumber the good ten to one(unfortunately!).

Power corrupts people. Ever heard of the "Stanford Prison Experiment". Well, you are a smart lady so I am sure that you have! But it proved that some people can not handle having power over others. The experiment had to be STOPPED because the students who were labelled "corrections officers" were being SO abusive to the "prisoners" also students. It is VERY interesting.

And what about peer pressure? I think some of those good, decent people are sometimes corrupted by their peers. It is an unpopular attitude amongst prison staff to view inmates as equals, who deserve to be treated with respect and dignity. From what I understand, both inmates and prison staff alike have this "us against them attitude". It can be hard to go against the crowd, and stand up for what is right. Because what is right isn't always POPULAR!

I am glad that you had a good experience, but I agree with ambrose. No doubt those guards were on their best behavior. They wouldn't want people on the "outside" to witness inmates being mistreated or abused. God forbid the media got wind of some of the things that go on behind prison walls! They could all very well lose their jobs! No one is going to belive an inmate, but they MIGHT believe a law abiding citizen right? I am just saying that while some of them may be genuinely nice people, other's may be putting on an act or have ulterior motives.

I understand that correctional officer's have a very difficult job. To be honest, I wouldn't want to work in that environment. I can't imagine having urine or feces thrown at me, and I can understand how after being burned one too many times you would become suspicious and have difficulty putting your trust in people. Ironically, I guess they too are products of their environment, just like the inmates under their care.

I do not believe that the inmates are "saints" by any stretch of the imagination. My boyfriend ALWAYS takes responsibility for his role. But let's remember one important fact. There is a BIG imbalance of power between inmate and guard, which gives the guard the upper hand. When push comes to shove, they have the power to make the inmate's life unbearable. Also, they are supossed to be upholding the law, and setting a good example. So, I have higher expectations of prison staff. Regardless of the inmate's behavior, that does not give them the right to respond in kind.

Lisa

Wow! Some really good debates going here! And each post has some 'true' information in them. However, let me clarify a few points......

While CO's are said to be "mean," "Cruel," or any number of adjectives, you have to remember that they are "the po-lice" in the eyes of inmates. Naturally, most all inmates have an automatic dislike for CO's. That is in place BEFORE they even see what a particular CO is about.

While one may be able to call a CO heartless for enforcing the rules, inmates respect a CO who does far more than one who doesn't. It takes TIME for an inmate to gain trust in any CO. The reasons for that are many, but I tend to believe they are 'feeling them out' so to speak. They watch a CO, and remember if he/she is consistent. One of the main things CO's are taught in training is to be the same EVERYDAY. You cannot let one infraction ride today, and then discipline them for the same infraction the next. It's simple, when you go into a prison environment, lay the ground rules from the beginning and don't waiver. Inmates will do whatever you allow them to get away with, and if you don't 'nip it in the bud' it will continue until you have no control over those you are to watch over. So again, it's imperitive that one stays consistent! For example, when I was a CO, inmates were bad to be "self-gratifying" themselves when count time came. Okay, as a civilian, I know that we all have urges, and I understand their need for such actions. However, if I had allowed it to go on, I would have had all 140 inmates in my charge wanting to show me their 'equipment'. So, I made it clear that they were not to be caught doing that at times when they knew I'd be coming around. If I happened upon them when it was not known that I was going to be coming, I could excuse that. But I also made it clear that I was not going to be disrespected in that manner, and they knew and I knew when count time was. Sure, I had to do a few write-ups, but once they knew I was the same each day, they knew what I would and would not stand for. Over time, they came to show me the same respects I showed them. And soon, whenever I'd be training a new officer, they'd say, "Train 'em right, you know how it's done!"

Yes, some inmates DO gather information. Again, in training, they teach you not to allow inmates to know much about your personal life. You're not supposed to tell them about your kids, if you're married or single or even the kind of car you drive. But if an inmate wants to know these things badly enough, they have ways they can find out. Believe it, I know for a fact it's true.

I find it hard to understand, yet I don't, (if that makes any sense) how so many of us can believe that 'our' men in prison are being completely honest with us about their feelings and emotions. It was mentioned about the man who basically used his wife to help him escape, then he was found to have been telling other women of his love for them just as he had his wife. How can we be assured they are being so truthful with us? Apparently this woman didn't feel her husband was lying to her, nor did she feel he'd EVER lie about his feelings, otherwise she wouldn't have taken the risk to help him try to escape! The truth is, like so many, she chose to believe what she wanted to believe. I know this is true too. I cannot begin to tell you how many men in prison have a different woman each visiting day, professing his love to each and every one! I've seen it too many times. I even once asked an inmate why he'd play with someone's emotions like that. He just laughed and said, "One fills my account so I live well, and another one will bring me 'things' to make my time here a little easier, and another one will 'do' things when she comes, and another one...." So in truth he got something from each one, and was unwilling to give that up. Now, that's not to say that ALL inmates are like that, but it IS something to think about when we put all our faith and love into one.

Yes, being a CO truly IS a difficult job. As I've said on the forum many times, if a CO stands up for an inmate, they are less than those who want to inflict MORE suffering(staff). I've been less than popular with my peers when I'd say certain treatment was WRONG, and I'd be met with, "What do you care, he's ONLY an inmate." Yes, there are probably more who look down on an inmate than those who feel compassion for them. That was the general concensus where I worked. I believe that is one of the main reasons that there is such a high turnover in our prison staff. The staff doesn't want caring, compassionate people working for them. If you are liked or respected by inmates, then you're either 'involved' with one of the inmates, or you're not doing your job. In turn, they seek ways to get rid of you. I've seen this many times. Then, as has been mentioned, there ARE those who cannot work under those conditions. Try doing your job, and knowing staff is watching every move you make, trying to find something you're doing wrong. It's not easy, and many leave for this reason, as well as not being able to conform to the whole, "He's ONLY an inmate" mentality.

I could go on and on about this one. But I won't. I will simply end with this: Not all CO's are heartless, or allow that authority to go to their heads. And not all CO's are looking out for the best interests of those incarcerated either! You'll just have to take it case by case, or in this instance, CO by CO.

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When a friend makes a mistake, a TRUE friend doesn't rub it IN. Instead, like an eraser, he rubs it OUT!

Thanks for your comments directly from a COs perspective, BrokenOne. I just wanted to comment on one thing you asked, how can we be sure (our penpals) are being honest with us? This seemed to me to speak to life in general, not specifically inmates. No, we can't see what they're doing so have no real way of knowing if they are telling the truth or not, but the same could be said for our wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends, etc etc. We don't watch them 24 hours a day, but we choose to believe in them based on trust we have with them. We don't want to watch them 24 hours a day because we believe they will tell us the truth, and I think that's the same speaking about people we can see everyday or penpals that are in our lives from afar.


a

Ambrose, you are so right! While I seemed to have singled out inmates, I agree that we never know if someone is being truthful with us on the outside either. However, I think it becomes apparent more quickly on the outside, as we see them with more regularity and because they tend to miss dates or whatever without a real excuse.

What I'm trying to say is that on the outside, we tend to be able to spend more time in their physical presence. Therefore, we pick up on things more quickly than we would in a relationship with someone on the inside.

But again, you're right. It truly IS something we deal with on either side of the wall. Please forgive me for appearing to believe only inmates could be guilty of such actions.

__________________
When a friend makes a mistake, a TRUE friend doesn't rub it IN. Instead, like an eraser, he rubs it OUT!